3MIX-LSTR - plus 4MIX
= = =
GENERAL NOTE - People might want to go after the periodontal
infection with substances. However keep in mind that the calculus
and biofilm have amazing self-protective qualities. So in general my
opinion is that substances largely become most useful once most of
the infection has already been debrided out. BUT - Catch-22 - if
most of the infection has been debrided then are the substances so
useful anymore? Yes, this would seem to argue against substances.
HOWEVER - I am probably wrong about being so skeptical against
substances. Just don't think of them as a panacea. Also they take
time to set up and implement. Plus each have their own special
dangers. So my opinion would be that they may or may not have their
place as part of an overall strategy. Or that one might be good at
one time. Then something else for another time. Depending on
circumstance and need.
IN PARTICULAR - 3MIX would seem to help stave off imminent
irreversible pulpitus and root resorption. It would also seem to
"tone up" the tooth to be better able to deal with any open cavities
etc. So it does have it's place. But first it would be best to get
everything as clean as possible. And also to consider it could cause
problems too. So to keep the potential benefits in balance with the
dangers.
= = =
OFFICIAL FORMULA - cut and pasted from some dental journal talking
about 3MIX for kids:
Composition and preparation of 3-Mix-MP
According to Hoshino et al., [6]
Antibiotic (3Mix) – ratio 1:1:1
- Ciprofloxacin 200mg, Metronidazole 500mg, Minocycline 100mg
- Carrier (MP) – ratio 1:1 - Macrogol ointment, Propylene glycol
3 Mix is incorporated into MP using the following - 1:5 (MP: 3-Mix)
- 1:7 (standard mix)
According to Takushige T et al., [5] the drugs are powdered and
mixed in a ratio of 1:3:3 (3-mix) and added either with
macrogolpropylene glycol (3-mix-MP) or a canal sealer
(3-mix-sealer).
= = =
BASIC DISCUSSION ON DIYPERIO LOGIC FOR 3MIX vs OFFICIAL DISCUSSION -
We don't disagree on anything. It is just that DIYPERIO expands the
concepts, switches things around a little bit, based on stuff I read
in comic books, and then declares that the comic book ideas might be
true and probably won't hurt, or if they do hurt probably won't hurt
too bad. With me as the guinea pig. And the guinea pig says - I am
happy. 100% satisfied. 5 out of 5.
As discussed the three antiobiotic drug cocktail is certainly
important. Think Mike Tyson. But with a little creativity and
make-believe can substitute ingredients. Such as my 4MIX concoction,
as discussed. Which I will swear up and down on because of what I
read on Merke. Plus my own make-believe logic. Plus my double
drug-mule. Which I read about on the NIH (National Institute of
Health). Which I will also swear upon. Plus the hyaluronic acid,
just because I am a fan and it is a good desiccant (drying agent).
And I believe that it has magical properties. Being a promoter of
the ECM (Extra-Cellular Matrix). Plus my subsitute of Tylose for
Macrogel, because of some discussion I read on some blog between lab
rats looking for good cheap, but still valid, thickeners. So I
jumped all over that one. Plus Macrogel sounds gross, since its main
use is as a laxative. Whereas the Tylose is used to make frosting
and cake lettering. Plus to help repair antique books. All of which
sounds much nicer and friendlier. With much better mental imagery.
Then comes my logic that if 3MIX works from the inside, ie drilling
into the teeth to place it inside, then having it penetrate the
dental tubules, then why not have it penetrate from the outside
instead?? And just hang out with it for awhile to provide longer
exposure time? Which should work as long as there is an exposed area
of dental tubules, ie exposed dentin. Where the 3MIX travels past
the thin(!) layers of slime layer (not calculus!) and gets right
into the teeth. And likewise to stick to the calculus and perhaps
penetrate into the bone. But not too much too often, so if there are
negative effects the body will have a good chance to recover. Logic
being it takes the body roughly 3 days to recover from mild trauma
and roughly 7 days to recover from a simple injury, consisting of 3
days to get its act together and 4 days of actual healing.
= = =
DIYPERIO LOGIC FOR 3MIX & 4MIX - Triple Antibiotic Paste
(TAP) has been around for a long time. Over time the ingredients
have changed. But the logic has largely remained the same. Use a
drug cocktail to disinfect and infected tooth. If the right drug
does not kill it then the left one will. Largely it has been used as
an adjunct to doing root canals. As an "extra step" that some
believe in and some don't. Likewise it's primary use has been for
infections and extensive caries in children's primary teeth, which
only have to last a few years. So rather than do root canals a hole
is drilled in the tooth and a dab of 3MIX is stuck in there and
sealed in with composite. From there it sterilizes the tooth to last
awhile longer.
LIKEWISE... mostly in Japan plus a few other places it appears
people have an aversion to root canals. So the 3MIX strategy is
apparently used on adults, not just children. Again the dentist
drills a shallow hole into the tooth, sticks in the 3MIX, and seals
it in. Logic is that the antiobiotic will penetrate the tooth
through the dental tubules and the tooth nerve will recover from the
infection and then the tooth will sterilize, resorb the nasties,
regenerate and recover.
- Q- SOUNDS VERY PAINFUL TO HAVE TO ENDURE A TOOTHACHE FOR UP TO
SEVERAL WEEKS UNTIL THE ANTIBIOTICS CAN GET THE UPPER HAND, DOESN'T
IT? ... A- YES, SOUNDS VERY PAINFUL - But supposedly Japanese
people don't get so crazy about potentially tolerable pain as
Westerners supposedly do. So supposedly 3MIX makes sense for
Japanese people because they are presumably more amenable to
suffering the interminable pain of a long-lasting toothache in order
to save the tooth.
SO WHAT ABOUT DIYPERIO? - WHAT IS YOUR PROPOSAL? - DIYPERIO proposes
to use the dental tubules as the delivery channel for the 3MIX. This
will enable the 3MIX to penetrate into the nerve chamber, so it can
shrug off infection. The 3MIX will also be able to travel throughout
the dental tubules which will help the tooth attack any root
resorption from the inside with fibroblasts. Plus it could also
conceivably help the tooth to shrug off some of the dead periodontal
membrane, helping to debride the tooth better. Plus maybe even shrug
off embedded calculus. Who knows?
Also for the 3MIX to cling to the latent calculus and necrotic
tissue. Plus to penetrate the granulation tissue. To function as
both reservoirs and deliverers of antiobiotic, in addition to the
immediate effects.
BUT WON'T THE 3MIX JUST GET WASHED OUT? - Largely yes. So the idea
is to use the Tylose thickener to slow down this process. Plus also
to use the hyaluronic acid and the drug mules to get the drugs to
penetrate into not just the tubules but the biofilm too. And to do
this by extending the exposure time to like a half hour to an hour.
Otherwise the inter-periodontal fluid will tend to wash out any
liquids in only around 20 minutes to an hour or so.
SUPPORTING LOGIC - It is generally agreed that calculus will absorb
antibiotic. In addition is is generally agreed that "blocked dental
tubules" are not really blocked. Here you can imagine a deep narrow
hole blocked with rocks. Granted the rocks will block the hole from
large objects. But liquids and very small objects will get past the
rocks. Similarly the "rocks" blocking the dental tubules only form a
permeable barrier, not an impermeable one. So given a reasonably
amount of time, like maybe an hour or so of fairly concentrated
contact the 3MIX will get into the dental tubules. And from there it
will permeate the entire tooth.
WHAT ARE YOUR ENEMIES - Obviously a primary enemy is the biofilm
infection. But also the 3MIX should be able to attack - 1) Caries -
especially if the area is already debrided. - 2) Root resorption -
which may be viewed as a variety of caries. - 3) Apical Perionditis
- which is really a tooth nerve infection, but also involving the
biofilm. - 4) Terminal Irreversible Pulpitis - which means Death to
the Tooth. 3MIX claims death is not inevitable. So wanna believe? I
know I do.
So clearly 3MIX has a lot of potential good to do. How to look at
it? Mainly I see 3MIX as the equivalent of an Intensive Care Ward
for the tooth. The tooth is not going to do you much good if it is
dead is it? No. If it is both dead and periodontally compromised
then perhaps it could stay, perhaps. But before you know it somebody
is going to take a pliers to it and it will be gone. So the 3MIX
gives the tooth the opportunity to live another day.
- "The greater part of valor is discretion"
- "He that fights and runs away, may turn and
fight another day; but he that is in battle slain, will
never rise to fight again."
= = =
TRIPLE-ANTIOBIOTIC-PASTE - 3MIX-MP LSTR - This is an antibiotic
cocktail combined with a drug carrier (drug mule) - Getting big on
this, like real big. Desperate times call for desperate measures. My
logic is to penetrate or infiltrate the dental tubules from the
outside, leading in, fan out and disperse and for the antibiotics to
invigorate the tooth to reject the infection from the inside. Object
is to stave off and turn back apical periodontitis, the great tooth
killer. Plus to fight off root resorption, another great tooth
killer. Plus to penetrate and destroy biofilm. Plus to possibly
fossilize remnants. So the fibroblasts can go to town to regenerate
tooth structure, both internal and external, while protecting the
nerve.
The posted recipes on the web say to keep the powders separate and
to only mix them for the day. But I am lazy and don't see the
justification to keep them separate. So I am just mixing them
together and adding some hyaluronic acid to suck up any moisture.
Plus wrapping plastic and a rubber band around the lid. Figuring the
stuff should be good for 30 days. Not in the fridge because the
fridge is moist.
Also I am using Tylose for the thickener. Plus I am using both the
Propylene Glycol and the Polysorbate-80 (Tween-80) for the drug
carrier. Plus adding some EDTA as a general surfactant and
homogenizer. Plus including hyaluronic acid for numerous purposes,
to help create body, as a general moisture improver and to function
as a drug mule.
In addition in my great cheapness, penny wise pound foolish, I have
been really cheap about using DuoDerm as a thickener, but am
starting to loosen up my purse strings and say what the hell you
only live once. Basically DuoDerm is a highly-specialized
plasticized hydro-colloid gel. Which means it tends to stay in place
and not operate like a pure thick fluid and hence "flow out" like
the Tylose and HA. So quite reasonably DuoDerm delays the dilution
and eviction process by some significant amount. Now granted it can
cost close to $10 per ounce and use up the available DuoDerm quite
quickly. But even a dab should tend to hold the solution in place
and help it resist getting diluted and washing away. Or if you are a
wealthy person just use the DuoDerm and forget about the cheap
Tylose. But also consider that Tylose has a great record. Just look
for - methylcellulose - which in spite of its scary name is
just some natural plant husk given a fancy chemical name.
Also starting to make 4MIX, my own creation by using both the
doxycycline and the minicycline. Looked and looked for information
about mixing the two together and see no negative interactions. The
Merck Manual says the two can be used interchangeably. And I believe
in Merck! In any case they are both tetracycline, just with
different properties. Minocycline is more dangerous but penetrates
better, being more fat soluble. Doxycycline is safer. So figure
mixing the two together should work. Even though it is lazy.
= = =
WHY ISN'T THE MEDICAL ESTABLISHMENT MIXING THE TWO TETRACYCLINES? -
Good question. Checked for any tetracycline-tetracycline
interactions and there appear to be none. There also appear to be no
warnings about mixing. BUT there is very little information, almost
none, about using them together. Mostly the questions revolve around
choice. Largely can follow the maxim: "Minocycline penetrates better
- being more fat soluble - but is more dangerous."
Regarding periodontal infections Arrestin, which is sustained
delivery, uses minocycline. Traditional 3MIX also uses minocycline.
The general logic appears to be to exploit
= = =
ANTIBIOTICS - PER CARRANZA'S CLINICAL PERIODONTOLOGY - Reviewing the
list of possible antibiotics the ingredients for the classic
3MIX-LSTR-TAP become fairly obvious. Plus the DIYPERIO presumption
that a 4MIX recipe also makes sense. 3MIX is what is known as a
"drug cocktail." Idea being that what won't get killed by one will
get killed by another. Similar to the logic against tuberculosis
= = =
FIRST WHAT IS NOT IN 3MIX? - By detailing all the antibiotics listed
in Carrenza's and rating them and de-listing all the drugs that are
not useful can basically come to a reckoning about what is useful.
NOT - PENICILLIN - AMOXICILLIN - AUGMENTIN - STAY AWAY?? - This
stuff can generally be considered to be both potentially dangerous
and contraindicatory and negatively interactive with tetracyclines.
SO... once there is any commitment to tetracyclines then obviously
penicillin based products are out. Or instead it can be looked at as
really strong stuff, so don't mess with it. NOT
NOT - MACROLIDE-AZITHROMYCIN - This stuff is listed for systematic
use, not for local application. Apparently it concentrates at
inflamation sites. NOT
NOT - LINCOMYCIN-CLINDAMYCIN - This stuff is a substitute for
penicillin.
NOT - MACROLIDE-AZITHROMYCIN - This stuff is listed for systematic
use, not for local application. Apparently it concentrates at
inflamation sites. NOT
NOT - TETRACYCLINE - issue here is that mostly doxycycline and
minocycline are used as the tetracyclines. So there is not much
point to using the original. Plus apparently tetracycline does not
penetrate very well (?) so it is the least effective anyway (?). But
nonetheless tetracycline does have some applications, guessing for
some type of slow release.
= = =
WHAT IS IN 3MIX OR 4MIX? - What is left. All the recipes I saw for
3MIX-LSTR said to use Minocycline, not Doxycycline. But Doxycycline
is used for other local periodontal applications, mostly externally.
Plus I didn't have any Minocycline. Plus Minocycline sounds scary.
Plus Merke says they can largely be used interchangably. So I just
started off with doxycycline. Then got some minocycline. Then
thought to make a separate batch. Then said hell with it, just mix
them together! Meanwhile looked around for any contraindications.
But largely sounds like since they are both tetracyclines that they
won't interfer with each other. But did not see any evidence of
mixing them together in the same topical application. So the 4MIX is
a stretch. But fairly confident it won't cause problems as long as
the batch is not kept together too long.
NOTE - MIXING THE POWDERS TOGETHER - KEEPING EVERYTHING DRY - I
grind the powders up separately in a shot glass and then mix them
together. All the recipes say to keep them separate. So might not be
a good idea to mix them together, but it is easier. To try to offset
this issue I add hyaluronic acid to the mix to soak up any moisture.
Figuring if the stuff is kept dry it is less likely to interact. But
can google - keep powdered drugs separate - and see that they say
that for the 3MIX, but otherwise there is not much information. So
think that keeping the drugs separate might be just in case, but
without a lot of strong reasons. Also figure if there are not strong
reasons the dentists will likely just say the hell with it and mix
them together too.
= = =
ANTIBIOTICS:
1 - METRONIDAZOLE - 3MIX ingredient - works against both protozoan
parasites and anaerobic bacteria, both systematically and locally.
Veterinarianly used for Hole-in-Head disease and other ailments.
2 - CIPROFLOXACIN - 3MIX ingredient - works against gram-negative
bacteria, whatever those are. Such as anthrax. Veterinarianly used
for Fin Rot, Black Patch, etc.
3 - MINOCYCLINE - 3MIX standard ingredient - Tetracycline. Similar
to Doxycycline, but penetrates better due to higher fat solubility.
4 - DOXYCYCLINE - (Not a standard 3MIX ingrient) - But is a
reasonable presumed substitute for 3MIX ingredient - In my
case I did not have minocycline handy and so just substituted
doxycycline. Then got some minocycline and rather than make a
separate batch just said "The hell with it, let's just mix them
together into a 4MIX."
NOTE - There are different opinions but 1-1-1 is both acceptable and
seems easiest. And as said my opinion would be that 4MIX is probably
okay. But I am just guessing. And certainly people can just follow
the standard recipes since they are right on the web. Also Merke
says that all tetracyclines are basically the same thing. Which
suggests that mixing two tetracyclines together is probably not a
problem. Though this does not appear to be common practice. Though
yes, there could be a problem mixing them together. Who is to say?
= = =
DRUG CARRIERS (MULES) - SURFACTANTS - THICKENERS - DISSICANTS:
PROPYLENE GLYCOL - Standard 3MIX ingredient - This stuff is used as
a common drug carrier. Like all the other ones, but with slightly
different properties, it more or less operates in three separate
ways. First as a surfactant, breaking down water-resistence. Second
as an emulsifier, surrounding the drug, like miniature soap bubbles,
able to transport more easily. Third as a penetrator, relying on
diffusion to carry itself into its entire environment. And in the
process bringing along the drug. In particular this stuff can get
past the dental tubules. Can it penetrate the body? Maybe a little
bit. But otherwise it will put the drug into close contact with the
body so it can cross over.
NOTE - Propylene Glycol is not poisonous. But Ethylene Glycol IS
poisonous and can kill you. It is the same as anti-freeze.
POLYSORB 80 - TWEEN 80 - (Not a standard 3MIX ingredient) - But
largely is fairly similar, with slightly different properties.
NOTE - A review of the internet using either Propylene Glycol or
Polysorb-Tween 80 as drug carriers for various purposes shows that
sometimes they use one, sometimes use the other or sometimes mix the
two together. So it looks like they can be safely mixed together,
especially for short-duration batches.
HYALURONIC ACID (HA) - (Not a standard 3MIX Ingredient) - Sucks up
water. So can figure it will help to keep the dry mix dry over it's
life. Which probably shouldn't be more than a month or so.
Main issue with HA is the molecules are long. So it might not be the
best drug carrier. But it does thicken things up. Plus otherwise it
has good penetration. Downside of HA is it is also said to "lock in"
the drug because of its long chains, sort of like an octopus, making
the drugs less effective. Consequently a reasonable amount of the
research involving using HA as a drug carrier seems based on using
shorter molecule chains. But otherwise figure that even if it slows
down the drug it is probably also acting as a buffer. So if the
drugs are dangerous that the HA will tend to make them less
dangerous. So figure it is a wash, just don't add too much HA to
drown out the antibiotics. Figure 10-20% is probably reasonable.
EDTA - (Not a standard 3MIX Ingredient) - Got the 17% dental stuff,
which is highly dangerous. Figure it will remain dangerous until
lowered down to roughly 1-2%, which would be a reduction of 10 to 1.
The EDTA is a surfactant and also a drug carrier. Plus surfactant
and a bit of an emulsifier. My experience is it helps to provide
body for things that otherwise might tend to stay separate.
TYLOSE - METHYLCELLULOSE - (Not a standard 3MIX Ingredient) - is a
common harmless food additive used as a thickener and glue. The more
Tylose the weaker the potency. The less Tylose the stronger the
potency. But also think that while Tylose is both good and cheap it
is still essentially a thick fluid and not really a thick gel. This
means it can be washed out... SO think a dab or DuoDerm would be
helpful. Or if you are wealthy just use the DuoDerm and damn the
extra expense.
NOT? - MACROGOL - (Official 3MIX ingredient) - Substitute Tylose!
- Macrogol is what is in the original recipe, but may be hard
to find in pure form. It is used for various laxative products. But
Tylose has a good reputation as a drug thickener so see no reason
not to substitute.
DUODERM - DuoDerm is a hydrocolloid gel which appears to be the top
dog. Plus it is expensive too. Like $10 per ounce. Originally I
tended to ignore it as too precious. But I was wrong and admit it.
It's essential quality, which is a great quality is it is both
hydrophillic, ie water loving, and it is in essence plasticized.
Also you will notice that many of the higher-level drug-thickeners
are also plasticized. So it is a positive quality because it resists
getting washed out. NOW... the question is whether just a dab of
DuoDerm is enough to get it to stay longer. And think the answer is
yes.
ALTERNATE SOLUTION - Another possibility would be to mix the
3MIX-LSTR the regular way, with the Tylose etc and just have it be a
little bit on the thick side. Then at the last minute you could make
a blop of DuoDerm and mix it in. OR if you also have deep pockets
that you think you should DuoDerm regularly then to include some of
the anti-bio along with the DuoDerm.
SUMMARY - Think the DuoDerm has an essential place in the 3MIX or
4MIX that cannot be denied and should not be ignored, though the
Tylose is certainly okay too. So could say the more DuoDerm the
merrier, but even a dab is helpful. With a large part of the issue
being cost. Which is certainly not crazy. At $10 per tube you can
reasonably figure it to last for a good month or more if all you
used it for was regular applications of the 3MIX. Or if you were
only intermittent with the 3MIX you would hardly even notice the
extra expense. But would just have to remind yourself to buy more
DuoDerm so it doesn't get used up too quickly.
= = =
MIXING IT ALL TOGETHER - use a shot glass and a brush-pick as a
stirrer. Have a clean medicine dropper handy. Also don't worry about
having to stir it a lot and just give it a reasonable amount of
time, like a few hours to just let the stuff mix together on its
own. Especially with the EDTA as an homogenizer. Likewise you let it
come together. Stir it. Then stir it a few hours later. Then stir it
a few hours after that and it should all mix together nicely within
around 4-6 hours. But also keep in mind that you are using up your
"72-hour shelf-life." So you could let it mix in the fridge too.
NOTE - Would generally recommend mixing everything together in a
shot glass and stirring it with a brush pick. Plus having some type
of small storage container. This helps it from evaporating out. Plus
I always imagine strange things in the air of the fridge that I
would not want to get into the mixture. I use a Zip-Loc 20 ounce
screw-top container, mostly because it is tall enough for both the
shot glass and to leave the brush pick in place.
- 3MIX or 4MIX - Reasonable to have the antibiotics already mixed
together in a 1-1-1-1 powdered mixture with a fifth part of HA added
to absorb moisture. I figure the dry mix is probably good for 30
days or so but not longer. I keep it in a small medicine bottle with
a piece of plastic wrap on top to keep out moisture. I use a
Starbucks stirrer as a spatula and take out 100 milligrams or so, or
roughly the contents of a typical capsule.
- HYALURONIC ACID - Can add a little bit. Depending on preference
25% is probably reasonable.
- TYLOSE - Hard to say but anywhere from 25-50% is probably okay.
- DUO-DERM - Would definitely add at least a dab or could even use
it as a main base for the solution by using more DuoDerm and less
water. But keep in mind that it absorbs the water fairly slowly. So
your mix will take longer to mix together.
- EDTA w WATER dilution - Since the EDTA is so powerful it might
make sense to dilute it 10-1 or so with water first. Figuring you
might use say 50 drops in total. At least a drop of EDTA is
certainly okay. Up to five drops is probably okay too. But wouldn't
do more than that unless you also have a special purpose in mind,
like root conditioning.
- TWEEN 80 & ETHYLENE GLYCOL - Both ingredients are not
particularly dangerous, so think 2 or 3 drops of each should be
okay, up to 5 drops. But then you start to get past the
concentrations they describe in the recipes, so wouldn't push it too
much.
THEN... let everything sit for a few hours. And play with it to get
the consistency you want.
APPLICATION - If it is a pocket I usually use a brush pick. I make a
glop and stick the blob right in the pocket. I also use a syringe
with a 16 guage irrigation needle. Then do everything I can do to
get to the bottom and stick the stuff in.
CAUTIONS - DANGERS - The main listed danger is you want to avoid any
ingestion of the mixture. Apparently it can cause fairly severe
throat irritation. Or perhaps even worse. BUT... figure your mouth
is fairly resistent to problems on a short term basis if the
application is not very often, like maybe once a week or so to give
the mouth time to recover.
SO - YOU WANT ALL THE TRAVEL OF SUBSTANCE TO GO OUTWARD, NOT INWARD
- What I do is spit on a next to constant basis. I also work up a
spit and continue to spit throughout the entire application period.
Then after maybe a half hour of application, after most of the stuff
has had a chance to wash out I wipe my tongue with water and spit
some more. Then after awhile longer I toss some water into my mouth
and immediately spit it out. Then finally I gargle. All with the
goal to get none or the stuff in my throat.
CAUTIONS - DANGERS - ONLY ALLOW INTERMITTENT CONTACT - What I do
here is only use the 3MIX or 4MIX every few days. Or I use it for
say 2 days in a row to skip a week. That way if I am causing any
problems then hopefully my body will get a chance to recover.
NOTE - On a practical level I have only used the 3MIX or 4MIX
intermittently, always allowing at least several days between
applications. In particular I thought I was getting irreversible
pulpitis on several teeth and wanted to help the tooth nerve stave
off the infection. But other than that the trouble of setting things
up and then applying them have usually taken a backseat to other
stuff I have been doing.
= = =
NOTE - I checked how long tetracyclines are supposed to last and the
one thing to keep in mind is that when they degrade they go toxic,
ie poisonous. So once they go past a reasonable age in whatever form
they are in for whatever conditions then the smart thing to do is to
throw them away. So... for both wet and room temperature the general
guidelines are to through away after 72 hours. There is different
opinion on refrigeration. Some say 3 days, which seems to strict.
Some say two weeks which seems reasonable. But in any case think it
is best to think in terms of 72 hours of room temperature time,
which is 3 days. So then a day or 24 hours of refrigeration time is
equal to roughly 5 hours of room temperature.
In any case think small batches are better, especially if you are
lazy and don't get around to using up the batch right away.
= = =
ALTERNATIVES:
1MIX - Could also go with 1MIX, with either the doxycycline or
minocycline and forget about the other two antibiotics.
DUO-DERM HYROGEL THICKENER - Here instead of the Tylose you could
use DuoDerm as the thickener. Which may not be such a bad idea
because the hydrogels are supposed to resist the washing out
process, whereas the Tylose will tend to get washed out. In this
case it would probably be best to apply with the 16 guage irrigation
needle. Plus the 3cc syringe, which is a little smaller and narrower
than the 5cc syringe, which will give more pump pressure for the
DuoDerm.
= = =
NOTE - CLINDAMYCIN - JAW INFECTIONS - HEAVY ARTILLERY FOR
PERIODONTAL INFECTIONS - For jaw infections the preferred drug is
Clindamycin, which is a penicillin substitute. Normally it is given
systematically, ie take a pill.... HOWEVER... it turns out that
Clindamycin can also be used topically. A common application is
acne... SO... this means that it is POSSIBLE to use Clindamycin as a
topical medication to go after jaw infections.... GENERAL LOGIC...
would seem to be to combine it with a drug-carrier drug-mule and to
apply it in a pocket that is deep enough to get real close to the
jaw so there is some leakage into the jaw during the time contact is
made. General idea here is for about an hour of contact or so.
BUT ISN'T CLINDAMYCIN DANGEROUS?? - Hard to say. Don't know the
answer. Certainly it is nasty to bugs. So it could be nasty to you
too. So perhaps ingestion is reasonable since the digestive system
is such a common entry point. Likewise perhaps the skin is
reasonable since it is essentially outside the body. So
perhaps it is dangerous to use it periodontally.... YES...
CLINDAMYCIN HAS DANGEROUS SIDE EFFECTS. SO HAVE TO BE CAREFUL.
NONETHELESS... that is the plan... to use it topically,
periodontally... so currently looking for precedents. Otherwise the
plan will be to look for exposure time for skin applications and
figure that a short term application with protection against
ingestion and other contact might be reasonable. For example to
gargle with coconut oil to provide a temporary barrier then to spit
it all out. Perhaps that would be a reasonable safeguard.
MEANWHILE... looking for applicable precedents.
NEGATIVES - Clindamycin can lead to bad diareah. Apparently with
topical periodontal application too?? Sounds like a good reason to
spit it out and to try to isolate it to the pocket.... Can also lead
to hair loss! ...
SOME GRIM STUFF - GOOGLE - topical
clindamycin jaw infection
SUMMARY - Sounds like the 3MIX-LSTR is fairly reasonable and that
the clindamycin is the heavy artillery. Also sounds like the 3MIX is
mostly okay if used in moderation but that the clindamycin has some
serious side effects. SO... think the logic would be to mostly use
the 3MIX and then for some special period of time to switch to the
topical clindamycin. Or perhaps even take it internally, but not as
the main killer but after the main infection has been reduced. As
the closer. Or if it gets worse and not better. That is how it seems
to me right now.
NOTE - Apparently clindamycin is used for periodontal disease for
cats and dogs after scaling and root planing. Under the tradename -
Clindoral
gel - which starts as a gel and then hardens for long-term
dispersal over a period of 7-10 days - - Dog
Study - from 2000.
NOTE - Issue with DIYPERIO is that DIYPERIO doesn't know anything
about solidifying gels. Which are usually plastic based and exotic.
All DIYPERIO knows anything about is this stuff called Tylose. Which
forms a gel that is reasonably water resistant for perhaps a few
hours. So idea for any concoctions DIYPERIO dreams up is they only
last a few hours. But still... the evidence on dogs and cats
suggests the idea will work for humans too. And will presume there
are gels for humans too.
NOTE - google - clindamycin
gel periodontal - does reveal some human experimentation from
1993. But with a cooked up batch. Containing carpobol as the
thickener. And with a fairly high concentration of EDTA, ie 5%, as
the presumed drug mule. With reasonable results from one application
per week for two weeks -
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF01728900#page-1
SUMMARY - LOOKS LIKE MOST HUMAN TRIALS WITH TOPICAL CLINDAMYCIN HAVE
BEEN EXPERIMENTAL WITH MIXED RESULTS - Mostly they have used
carpobol as the thickener. Which is not so readily available at
reasonable cost. So think Tylose is a reasonable substitute.
SUMMARY - Would mix up this stuff secondarily and not mix with the
3MIX or the 4MIX. But otherwise the other ingredients could be the
same, with the EDTA, Hyaluronic Acid and drug mules. Since they have
used similar mixtures already on both dogs and humans without any
serious adverse effects giving it a go sounds reasonable as long as
basic precautions are made, such as spitting out the stuff for at
least a few hours.